A LONG Response to a Comment

This is a response to an anonymous commenter or this post http://www.calebohara.com/2008/04/jw-mcgarveys-advice-on-fellowship.html. Move over there for the full comment.

Mr(s). Anonymous who uses Charter internet and lives somewhere near Riverbank, California has just been itching for a response. In fact, he/she is our most frequent visitor since he/she posted this comment. Please just bookmark the site instead of searching for "preacher caleb" on Google everytime. Or just remember CALEB OHARA and then don't put the space. So here goes…

First of all I’m not sure if I should debate this non-debate debate? You said, “I am not here to debate you, because I feel that debating is wrong because it is never done in love. But, here I go...” I’m slightly confused on this one, “I’m not here to debate… here I go” - ???? You state that “I feel debating is wrong because it IS NEVER DONE IN LOVE” (Emph. Added). Never? Ever? Not once? Question – how do you know that it’s not done in love? I’m content to allow the judging of men’s hearts to God alone. Perhaps you have been given a privilege to see into men’s hearts that I’m not aware of. Apparently Paul, Barnabas, and the entire church in Jerusalem didn’t “love” because they “debated” (Acts 15:2, 7). Enough of this… you and I both know that the exchange of thoughts is not wrong and never will be wrong. The only way it could be wrong is if a man has a bad heart and you and I both know only God can judge the heart. And even men with bad hearts can proclaim the correct message! (cf. Jonah, Philippians 1:12-18). This whole Postmodernism jargon of not “debating” and then engaging in the most heated debate is designed to present oneself in a better light then the one who is being debated. To do this is to do the very thing that you are condemning (cf. Romans 2:17-24). So let’s put a nail in this one from the start. Had Paul not debated with the Jews they never would have come to know Christ. How terrible he was for not loving!!! Know this that just because I’m debating back the points you are debating from my blog doesn’t mean it’s not in love – I guarantee you that it is (unless you have some kind of window into my heart that I don’t know about and you can tell me otherwise????).

Secondly you said, “I, too, was raised in the Churches of Christ and am very familiar with all of your reasoning in scripture.” Wow that’s pretty amazing. Because you were raised in what you call “the Churches of Christ” you are “very familiar” will “all” of my “reasoning in Scripture.” This tries to assert that it is impossible to have genuine original thoughts and reasoning outside of circumstances. Just because two individuals are engage in the same circumstances does not mean that the same outcome is determined. This type of postmodern thinking (determinism) is seriously flawed. Your response is a witness to this fact. If it were the case that because someone is raised in an environment he MUST HAVE a certain type of reasoning you and I must think exactly alike, and from your message it is apparent that we do not. So toss that idea off the ship. It’s unfounded and quite frankly arrogant. I will also note that I do not accept your premise of “Churches of Christ,” but that is a discussion for later.

Thirdly you said, “But, if I could, in love as God tells us to, just tell you about my journey with instruments.” Ummmmmmmmmm did I miss the Scripture that says we are supposed to tell everyone about “my journey with instruments.” I’m assuming you must mean that we are supposed to speak to people in love. Very true, and sometimes the truth hurts like when Jesus told the Rich Young Ruler, out of love (Mark 10:21), that he had to go and sell all he had and give it to the poor to follow Christ. I guess it’s possible for people to say hard things that demand massive changes in life because of sin and still do it in love – very good to know! We agree on this because the Bible says it!

Fourthly you said: “I know that the use of instruments is a big deal in the Churches of Christ. And, I also know exactly what scriptures you would give me if I disagree with you. I am a third generation, maybe more, on both sides of my family, a Church of Christ member, or should I say, was.” Christ is very concerned for His church - He loves her (Ephesians 5:25)! If Christ speaks on worship it’s a big deal to me (John 4:1ff). So for you to say that worship is a big deal to Christ’s church I would agree with you that it’s a big deal to Christ. It would be a huge help to me if you explain where you get this power to “know exactly” what I’m going to say. That truly is remarkable. What about my friend Kenny. He is the only one in his family that is a member of Christ’s church. If he debates it with you does that mean he won’t have prejudices that he can’t avoid because his upbringing was different from mine? If that’s what it will take I will by all means ask him to respond to your questions. Oh wait wait... how about John Price. He is a graduate of Trinity Ministerial Academy and he is currently the minister at Grace Baptist Chruch in Rochester, New York. He says (now he has no "Church of Christ" upbringing and he is not even a minister of one), "If the Word of God alone is our guide in this matter, we cannot escape the conclusion that musical instruments in Christian worship are a violation of the regulative principle. To bring them into the church is to transgress the authority of Christ in His worship" (Old Light on New Worship Avinger, TX: Simpson Publishing Company, 2005). Let’s cut with the story telling of our lineage and get down to what the Text says. Please understand I really am saying this out of love but in all honestly I don’t care about your upbringing or mine; I care what the text SAYS! It truly saddens me that you have left Christ and His church that He died for (Ephesians 5:25). Please understand I know what your implying with “Church of Christ” but that implication is unfounded and I refuse to accept man’s terms… just sticking with what the Word says.

Fifthly you said: “So, i took my Greek/Hebrew dictionary and looked up every word in the two verses that we use to support the view of "instrumental sin." Every word except hymn has the word instrument in it. At first, that scared me because that is what i was taught all of my life: fear. So, i prayed like crazy and asked that God would open up my heart and not allow me to cling to prejudices that I was taught, but what He wanted me to see.” Great! We agree that words matter. Not only that you are appealing to Greek sources as proof as to why God is pleased with instrumental music in worship to Him. Could you give me the verses you are speaking of and the words along with documentation of the sources that prove this point? You can email them to me if you wish I will look them up. When you say “instrumental sin” I’m not sure what you mean. How do you define sin? And how do you define “instrumental sin.”

I’m glad you were taught fear. Fear of God is imperative to being a follower of God (Gen 20:11, 2 Sam 23:3; Neh 5:15; Job 4:5; 2 Cor 7:1), and the lack of fear of God is a great sin (Psa 36:1; Rom 3:18). The wise man Solomon summed up all of life when he said, “the conclusion of the whole matter is to fear God and keep his commandments” (Ecclesiastes 12:13). Perhaps Nadab and Abihu would have been much better off if they had more fear for the Lord (Lev 10:1ff). I guess God messed up when he took Ananias and Sapphira’s life because it brought fear upon all the church (Acts 5:11) – nahhhhh I don’t think so. The list goes on and on – 2 Cor 5:11; 7:11, 15; Eph 5:21; 6:5; Phil 2:12; Heb 4:1; 1 Pet 1:17; 2:17; Jude 1:23. Please note that the Scriptures make a clear tie between obedience and fear. Without Godly fear disobedience is sure to follow. So hopefully I can help put the fear of God back in you!

You were taught prejudices? Terrible thing! Christ has the same problem. He was taught the prejudice of Judaism when he was a child. He was even so prejudice as to say He was the only way to the Father! You know Timothy had the same problem too. Paul suffered the same problem because he wrote that there was only one church (Eph 4:4; 1:22-23). Oh yeah, and Moses, man that guy was so prejudice he ended up killing a man! Just because you are taught something does not imply that you do not have the truth. Yes it’s true you can be taught a lie and be prejudiced towards the lie. But it is likewise true that you can be told the truth and be prejudiced towards it. Usually when people use the word “prejudice” they think that it is a very negative thing. Prejudice is neither right nor wrong in and of itself. It’s what has shaped it and sustains it that matters. All deeply held beliefs become prejudices, in the sense you are using the word, so are we not supposed to have deeply held beliefs? Ahhhh another problem that postmodernism is trying to assert into our thinking.



Sixthly you said: “This thought kept coming up in my mind. If instruments are a sin in worship, then they are a sin ALL of the time. Our lives should be a worship to God, not just on Sunday mornings, nights and Wednesday nights. If I believe that God doesnt like instruments in worship then He wouldn't like them at all; at any time in our lives.” First I would like to point out that your thinking began with your thoughts “This thought kept coming up in my mind.” This is a serious problem. This is one of the first steps towards exchanging the truth of God for a lie (Rom 1:20-25). Naaman had this problem too he said, “Behold I thought” (2 Kings 5:11). The problem is what Naaman thought wasn’t what God was saying.

You state “If instruments are a sin in worship, then they are sin ALL of the time.” Is it ok to be naked at any time in front of a person? I would hope you will say yes to this. Is it a sin to show up in the worship assembly naked? I would hope you will say yes to this. Your syllogistic argument has some major problems. There are things you can do in the privacy of your bedroom that would be sin to do in public, or worship for that matter. Just as there are things you can do when you are not worshiping that you can’t do when you worship. Your thought that kept coming up is not based upon Scripture. You took the wrong fork in the road on this one and I hope your prejudice of mind can be changed.

This whole concept of everything in life is worship has no biblical basis. Jesus made Clear in John 4 that there is a right way and wrong way to worship God (John 4:23-24). He also said that worship is not constrained by location. If you are worshiping God in your car and you are not doing it according to truth then it’s not acceptable to God. So the Scriptures agree that it does not just pertain to certain times in the worship assembly, but anytime you worship. The problem is not everything you do in life is worship. Worship involves intent. The word worship (proskuneo) literally means to kiss towards. Worship is intentional and directed. Last time I mowed the lawn it wasn’t directed to God. Last time I ate my dinner it wasn’t directed towards God. In everything I do I want my life to be acceptable to God, but it’s not all worship. Abram understand this when he said, “Stay here with the donkey, and I and the lad will go over there; and we will worship and return to you” (Gen 22:5). In a sense our lives are to be in service to God like worship is a service to God, however, just because all worship is service to God does not make all service worship. If everything is worship then worship is nothing at all. A word that means everything means nothing. In fact, if everything in life was worship Jesus’ whole conversation with the woman at the well is pointless.

You also said, “If I believe that God doesnt like instruments in worship then He wouldn't like them at all; at any time in our lives.” If I believe that God doesn’t like sex outside of marriage then He wouldn’t like it at all; at any time in our lives. This creates a problem. A big problem… the good thing it is humanly created and therefore can be changed.

Seventhly you said, “If instruments are a sin, then why are "harpists playing their harps" in Heaven in Revelation 14:2?” Revelation 14:2 says that “the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps.” The text clearly says that it was THE VOICE! It is a fundamental mistake to try and go to a book that is apocalyptic (figurative in nature) and try to pull something out and make it literal. Is there really a red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and on his heads seven diadems (Rev 12:3)? Besides, if heaven is material in nature and it literally has harps, God has every right to tell us He wants to be worshiped that way when we get there! At different times in human history God has accepted and then rejected different types of worship. God accepted animal sacrifices in worship from patriarchs. Then in history God demanded that only priests could offer animal sacrifices. Today He won’t accept any animal sacrifices as worship. God demanded worship come from a certain place but now the location doesn’t matter (John 4:20ff). So if God changes what He wants as worship in Heaven I am all for it, but that by no means justifies me doing it now here on earth.

Eighthly you said, “And, why is Jesus going to come with the "sound of a trumpet"? 1 Cor. 15:52.” The text does not directly say but it seems pretty evident that it is to announce His coming. And I’m failing to see what this has to do with worship. Are we supposed to raise the dead in worship too? If you want to use a trumpet to get peoples attention, then by all means do it!

Ninthly you said, “I dont think that you HAVE to use instruments, but I would be careful to condemn people who do.” What does God think? And if all those words you said mean to use instruments how could God command them and then not care if you use them? It’s good for you not to condemn people. Only God condemns. It would be good, however, to make good judgments over right and wrong and when someone is doing something that is right or wrong.

Tenthly you said, “I would urge you to just study it again.” DONE… your turn!

There is a good chance that I know who wrote this anonymous comment. So let me give you an open invitation to sit down and look at the text together anytime you want. Please note my use of satire and humor at times to illustrate a point. If there is a sincere desire in your heart to know what the Text says then you and I are in the same boat! Perhaps we can help each other come to know Him better!

I would also like to conclude by noting that I didn't say anything about Instumental Music in my post.

Sow the Seed,
Caleb