My list of Sightings for Today…
- Hardeman Nichols
- Mac Lyon
- Garland Elkins
Monday, February 4, 2008
Open Forum Live Blog
*More Recent Comments Appear First*
- That was pretty much the end of the open forum. I give it a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10. Ralph needs to slow do and articulare better. And I'm longing for good comments from the mics. Maybe tomorrow eh?
- A fellow who was a missionary in I believe it was India, got up and talked for a long time. Not really sure what his point was. He then moved on to talk about how people had come in to try and destroy their work by teaching anti-cooperation doctrine and then he moved to the liberals who came in teaching that false doctrine of the instrument of hand clapping. He then said the brethren there rejected that unbiblical practice.
Ralph mentions he addressed this all last year and you can get it on CD along with everyone else’s comments on it. He says that he did hear it on CD and couldn’t be here last year because he was doing mission work overseas. He then says he just wants to know of Ralph has repented yet. You can then hear a pin drop for a couple seconds and this is then followed by a few scattered hand claps.
Lipe makes his move to the microphone to do his usual squash of the discussion. This is followed by… you guessed it, Elkins! I knew he was coming and here he is. He says that he won’t talk about the clapping thing since they don’t want to, just listen to the CD and hear his comments from last year. He then just backs up what Ralph said about how not revealing all information is not lying.
My thoughts…. It was funny to see this guy bring it up like this. Before the open forum I said, “I wonder how long it will take for someone to bring up hand clapping.” Not long apparently! I still think there is confusion on the issue and Freed just wants to not address it. Can you imagine if Ralph said that you can use a trumpet in singing? They would not tolerate it. Yet there are those who believe that clapping IS always an instrument and is therefore sinful to use in singing. That really is where the debate should be, however, it seems to be that this has been forgotten in the whole heat of the discussion. I think it’s a bit disingenuous for them to not talk about this when they would readily pick up a discussion on instrumental music. My final thought is that most comments made on this subject are opinions. Very few are digging into the text. It’s an epidemic.
- OK... live blogging is going to stop for now. I will sumarize at the end. Caleb Junior needs the computer to distract him so he sits still for the rest. Check back!
- I'm waiting for Garland Elkins to make his appearence. I know it's coming... waiting....
- Question: Is it ok for a Christian to lie if it’s a matter of life and death?
Ralph talks about Abram’s lies about his wife. He also mentions Isaac’s similar lie. He then mentions Rahab the harlot. He says 1 Sam 16:1-3 is one of the stickiest passages. It appears that God is telling him to deceive the people. Ralph says that this leads him to believe that you don’t have to tell every thought you know in order to be truthful.
God is a God of truth and doesn’t lie. We are to be people like God. Our Yes be yes and no be no. We are honest.
Conclusion is that it’s not wrong to not reveal all information but if asked you can’t lie. Ralph points out that some benefited form lying (in this life). He said that’s not the question.
Good point. People prosper in the world all the time even though they are evil. We don’t base good and evil, right and wrong, and integrity upon worldly standards of results. We look to the end. Job teaches a great lesson on this.
- Question about giving. I really didn’t follow. Gilmore talks too fast. I think the conclusion was giving on the first day of the week is the Apostolic pattern to be followed.
- Question: In general the question is about what happened to the gentiles in the OT. They weren’t under the old law so how did they receive forgiveness.
Ralph’s general response was that the gentiles where not under law and Paul says (somewhere in Romans) that without law there can be no sin. His conclusion is that God had a way that he dealt with them and it’s fuzzy.
This is true. It’s obvious God extended grace to gentiles as the entire book of Jonah shows, as well as other passages. Exactly how he did it is not always made clear, nor does it need to be. God’s seed promise was through Israel and Israel is the line through which Christ came. God’s dealings with Israel teach us enough to learn how God sees people. I think the key is to understand that Romans 1:16-17 shows that God has justified by those who come to Him through faith – believing He can do something for them that they cannot do for themselves.
- First Question: Is it meaningful to have the open forum because it seems like this generation doesn’t like to deal with controversial things.
Ralph believes the time is coming when discussion about biblical subjects is going to happen more. We are in a swing and right now people don’t want to talk about these matters but they will want to more in the future. Maybe he is right.
I think he blew a chance to examine the mindset of people in this generation and why they would think the way they do.
- Guess what, the cheesy joke is now coming. Everyone pay up!
- Ralph Gilmore is being introduced. My prediction he will start out with some cheesy joke. I'm taking bets.
- David Lipe is giving the standard spill he gives every year. What is open forum. Disagree but don’t be disagreeable. Oh yes, and FHU and the answers are not official answers from God. Good to know!
- That was pretty much the end of the open forum. I give it a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10. Ralph needs to slow do and articulare better. And I'm longing for good comments from the mics. Maybe tomorrow eh?
- A fellow who was a missionary in I believe it was India, got up and talked for a long time. Not really sure what his point was. He then moved on to talk about how people had come in to try and destroy their work by teaching anti-cooperation doctrine and then he moved to the liberals who came in teaching that false doctrine of the instrument of hand clapping. He then said the brethren there rejected that unbiblical practice.
Ralph mentions he addressed this all last year and you can get it on CD along with everyone else’s comments on it. He says that he did hear it on CD and couldn’t be here last year because he was doing mission work overseas. He then says he just wants to know of Ralph has repented yet. You can then hear a pin drop for a couple seconds and this is then followed by a few scattered hand claps.
Lipe makes his move to the microphone to do his usual squash of the discussion. This is followed by… you guessed it, Elkins! I knew he was coming and here he is. He says that he won’t talk about the clapping thing since they don’t want to, just listen to the CD and hear his comments from last year. He then just backs up what Ralph said about how not revealing all information is not lying.
My thoughts…. It was funny to see this guy bring it up like this. Before the open forum I said, “I wonder how long it will take for someone to bring up hand clapping.” Not long apparently! I still think there is confusion on the issue and Freed just wants to not address it. Can you imagine if Ralph said that you can use a trumpet in singing? They would not tolerate it. Yet there are those who believe that clapping IS always an instrument and is therefore sinful to use in singing. That really is where the debate should be, however, it seems to be that this has been forgotten in the whole heat of the discussion. I think it’s a bit disingenuous for them to not talk about this when they would readily pick up a discussion on instrumental music. My final thought is that most comments made on this subject are opinions. Very few are digging into the text. It’s an epidemic.
- OK... live blogging is going to stop for now. I will sumarize at the end. Caleb Junior needs the computer to distract him so he sits still for the rest. Check back!
- I'm waiting for Garland Elkins to make his appearence. I know it's coming... waiting....
- Question: Is it ok for a Christian to lie if it’s a matter of life and death?
Ralph talks about Abram’s lies about his wife. He also mentions Isaac’s similar lie. He then mentions Rahab the harlot. He says 1 Sam 16:1-3 is one of the stickiest passages. It appears that God is telling him to deceive the people. Ralph says that this leads him to believe that you don’t have to tell every thought you know in order to be truthful.
God is a God of truth and doesn’t lie. We are to be people like God. Our Yes be yes and no be no. We are honest.
Conclusion is that it’s not wrong to not reveal all information but if asked you can’t lie. Ralph points out that some benefited form lying (in this life). He said that’s not the question.
Good point. People prosper in the world all the time even though they are evil. We don’t base good and evil, right and wrong, and integrity upon worldly standards of results. We look to the end. Job teaches a great lesson on this.
- Question about giving. I really didn’t follow. Gilmore talks too fast. I think the conclusion was giving on the first day of the week is the Apostolic pattern to be followed.
- Question: In general the question is about what happened to the gentiles in the OT. They weren’t under the old law so how did they receive forgiveness.
Ralph’s general response was that the gentiles where not under law and Paul says (somewhere in Romans) that without law there can be no sin. His conclusion is that God had a way that he dealt with them and it’s fuzzy.
This is true. It’s obvious God extended grace to gentiles as the entire book of Jonah shows, as well as other passages. Exactly how he did it is not always made clear, nor does it need to be. God’s seed promise was through Israel and Israel is the line through which Christ came. God’s dealings with Israel teach us enough to learn how God sees people. I think the key is to understand that Romans 1:16-17 shows that God has justified by those who come to Him through faith – believing He can do something for them that they cannot do for themselves.
- First Question: Is it meaningful to have the open forum because it seems like this generation doesn’t like to deal with controversial things.
Ralph believes the time is coming when discussion about biblical subjects is going to happen more. We are in a swing and right now people don’t want to talk about these matters but they will want to more in the future. Maybe he is right.
I think he blew a chance to examine the mindset of people in this generation and why they would think the way they do.
- Guess what, the cheesy joke is now coming. Everyone pay up!
- Ralph Gilmore is being introduced. My prediction he will start out with some cheesy joke. I'm taking bets.
- David Lipe is giving the standard spill he gives every year. What is open forum. Disagree but don’t be disagreeable. Oh yes, and FHU and the answers are not official answers from God. Good to know!
FHU Monday Lectures
Monday update –
Today the first lecture we made it to was in the chapel (It’s hard to make the earlier lectures with two kids that are under the age of four). David Sargent spoke on “Believe John” form John 5:33. The theme this year is all on the Gospel of John.
David spoke about who John the Baptist was not. It seemed to me his main point was that John was trying to point away from himself and to Jesus as the Christ. Even though his assigned text was John 5:33 he preached out of John 1:19ff. He talked about how John said he was not the Christ, or Elijah, neither was he the Prophet. He said that they were looking for Elijah based upon Malachi 4:5. He then says that John the Baptist was saying this was not him. What’s interested to me is that he did not attempt to rectify the apparent contradiction with Matthew 11:14, “And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.”
It was a shame that John 20:30-31 was not pointed to as the purpose behind John’s gospel – “that you may believe that Jesus the Christ the Son of God.” It is faith in Jesus as the Christ that John is striving to develop from start to finish in his Gospel. In John 1:34 John the Baptist says, “I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.” John the Baptist is a witness to who is seeking to instill belief in the reader that Jesus is the Son of God who can give them life! There were many exegetical ties that are really exciting all through the John the Baptist sections in the Gospel of John, and in my opinion these were neglected.
There was a lengthy quote from William Barclay’s commentary about John the Baptist being the one to introduce Jesus as the Bridegroom. It rubbed me the wrong way and maybe unnecessarily. It helps to understand that I don’t place commentaries on the altars that most do and read them infrequently let alone do I quote them in a sermon. From an illustration point of view it fits its purpose – I guess.
The thrust of the lesson was quite accurate – that Jesus is the Christ. The delivery lacked passion. The content seemed lacking. The nonuse of the wonderful exegetical ties with the John the Baptist passages and the rest of John was a crime. Of course… it’s my opinion.
Caleb
UPDATE:
I just got done listening to Stan Michell preach on "Practicing Love in a Multi-ethnic Society" from John 4:7-14. His accent was great (why is it that one someone preaches with an accent they automatically receive 2 more style points?). He talked about doing mission work in Zimbabwe and did a good job of relating the biblical subject to the world we live in.
There is a lot I could say but I will just address one of them. His last point was that the blood of Christ is the only solution to racial prejudices. He said the answer is not the government, social programs, the help section of book stores, or government school education – it’s the cross that eliminates all ungodly prejudices and allows all men to see each other as equals. Great message.
UPDATE:
Doc Woods (Clyde M. Woods) just spoke on John 1:1 and the Watchtower Societies erroneous translation which denies the deity of Christ. The first part of the lecture was entirely too complex for anyone who has not had at least two years of Greek. This could have been aided with some PowerPoint slides illustration what a predicate nominative was in the Greek and how it functioned. Most people were probably lost. Then he transitioned into a much broader discussion of JW’s and their way of translating. He showed, by quoting one of their translators, that they had no business translating the Greek. He was a bit “unsmooth” in his presentation which somewhat surprised me.
Today the first lecture we made it to was in the chapel (It’s hard to make the earlier lectures with two kids that are under the age of four). David Sargent spoke on “Believe John” form John 5:33. The theme this year is all on the Gospel of John.
David spoke about who John the Baptist was not. It seemed to me his main point was that John was trying to point away from himself and to Jesus as the Christ. Even though his assigned text was John 5:33 he preached out of John 1:19ff. He talked about how John said he was not the Christ, or Elijah, neither was he the Prophet. He said that they were looking for Elijah based upon Malachi 4:5. He then says that John the Baptist was saying this was not him. What’s interested to me is that he did not attempt to rectify the apparent contradiction with Matthew 11:14, “And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.”
It was a shame that John 20:30-31 was not pointed to as the purpose behind John’s gospel – “that you may believe that Jesus the Christ the Son of God.” It is faith in Jesus as the Christ that John is striving to develop from start to finish in his Gospel. In John 1:34 John the Baptist says, “I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.” John the Baptist is a witness to who is seeking to instill belief in the reader that Jesus is the Son of God who can give them life! There were many exegetical ties that are really exciting all through the John the Baptist sections in the Gospel of John, and in my opinion these were neglected.
There was a lengthy quote from William Barclay’s commentary about John the Baptist being the one to introduce Jesus as the Bridegroom. It rubbed me the wrong way and maybe unnecessarily. It helps to understand that I don’t place commentaries on the altars that most do and read them infrequently let alone do I quote them in a sermon. From an illustration point of view it fits its purpose – I guess.
The thrust of the lesson was quite accurate – that Jesus is the Christ. The delivery lacked passion. The content seemed lacking. The nonuse of the wonderful exegetical ties with the John the Baptist passages and the rest of John was a crime. Of course… it’s my opinion.
Caleb
UPDATE:
I just got done listening to Stan Michell preach on "Practicing Love in a Multi-ethnic Society" from John 4:7-14. His accent was great (why is it that one someone preaches with an accent they automatically receive 2 more style points?). He talked about doing mission work in Zimbabwe and did a good job of relating the biblical subject to the world we live in.
There is a lot I could say but I will just address one of them. His last point was that the blood of Christ is the only solution to racial prejudices. He said the answer is not the government, social programs, the help section of book stores, or government school education – it’s the cross that eliminates all ungodly prejudices and allows all men to see each other as equals. Great message.
UPDATE:
Doc Woods (Clyde M. Woods) just spoke on John 1:1 and the Watchtower Societies erroneous translation which denies the deity of Christ. The first part of the lecture was entirely too complex for anyone who has not had at least two years of Greek. This could have been aided with some PowerPoint slides illustration what a predicate nominative was in the Greek and how it functioned. Most people were probably lost. Then he transitioned into a much broader discussion of JW’s and their way of translating. He showed, by quoting one of their translators, that they had no business translating the Greek. He was a bit “unsmooth” in his presentation which somewhat surprised me.
Sunday, February 3, 2008
Freed Hardeman University Lectures
This week I flew out to Nashville, Tennessee with my wife and two sons. We made the voyage to attend the annual Freed Hardeman University Lectureship. Since we arrived in Nashville we have been staying at my sister and brother-in-law's house in Nashville. It's already been an exciting on the go trip. Since we have been here we have visited friends of ours in Columbia, Spring Hill (former members at the West Visalia congregation where I used to serve), Nashville (former members from the congregation in Ripon where I am now), as well as meet lots of new people.
Tonight we made it to our hotel in Jackson, Tennessee and tomorrow the lectures begin for us. One of our elders, Jack Hawes, and his wife Pinky, also made the trip out for the lectureship. I'm excited to get the chance to spend this time with them at the lectureship. This morning when I was sitting in Bible class my cell phone started ringing (I had it on vibrate). After the first call was immediately followed up with a second I knew it wasn't good news. We have an elderly member who was in a nursing home and got an infection. Just before we left for Nashville she went into the emergency room. She passed away Saturday night at around 10:00 p.m. . It's never easy taking those phones calls. What's really not easy is that David Lee (our other elder) is the only one there to do all the comforting with the family. The good news is he is more than capable. I’m reminded of the Holy Spirit inspired words from Solomon:
Death always brings a time of introspection – at least it should!
I almost forgot but I didn't preach today - weird... but nice. Sometimes you get tired of hearing yourself and need to hear others. This morning we attending the Crieve Hall congregation in Nashville and this evening we attended the Spring Meadows congregation in Spring Hill where Dale Jenkins preaches. Both congregations used the paperless hymnals (songs with the notes projected on the screen) and I really liked it. Everyone is looking up and singing out instead of into a book.
My dad preached for me in Ripon this week. The hope is I don't have too much destruction to go and clean up when I get home :). I needed this break from preaching (it's not good when even you don't like to hear yourself preach). The great news is that I know I will be energized and ready to hit the road running again when I get back to my family in Ripon. I really do miss them already.
Sow the Seed Faithfully,
Caleb O'Hara
UPDATE: I will try and blog daily about the lectureships and tomorrow I'm going to see if I can liveblog the open forum. Stay tuned...
Tonight we made it to our hotel in Jackson, Tennessee and tomorrow the lectures begin for us. One of our elders, Jack Hawes, and his wife Pinky, also made the trip out for the lectureship. I'm excited to get the chance to spend this time with them at the lectureship. This morning when I was sitting in Bible class my cell phone started ringing (I had it on vibrate). After the first call was immediately followed up with a second I knew it wasn't good news. We have an elderly member who was in a nursing home and got an infection. Just before we left for Nashville she went into the emergency room. She passed away Saturday night at around 10:00 p.m. . It's never easy taking those phones calls. What's really not easy is that David Lee (our other elder) is the only one there to do all the comforting with the family. The good news is he is more than capable. I’m reminded of the Holy Spirit inspired words from Solomon:
"A good name is better than a good ointment, And the day of one’s death is
better than the day of one’s birth. It is better to go to a house of mourning
Than to go to a house of feasting, Because that is the end of every man, And the
living takes it to heart. Sorrow is better than laughter, For when a face is sad
a heart may be happy. The mind of the wise is in the house of mourning, While
the mind of fools is in the house of pleasure." (Eccl 7:1-4)
Death always brings a time of introspection – at least it should!
I almost forgot but I didn't preach today - weird... but nice. Sometimes you get tired of hearing yourself and need to hear others. This morning we attending the Crieve Hall congregation in Nashville and this evening we attended the Spring Meadows congregation in Spring Hill where Dale Jenkins preaches. Both congregations used the paperless hymnals (songs with the notes projected on the screen) and I really liked it. Everyone is looking up and singing out instead of into a book.
My dad preached for me in Ripon this week. The hope is I don't have too much destruction to go and clean up when I get home :). I needed this break from preaching (it's not good when even you don't like to hear yourself preach). The great news is that I know I will be energized and ready to hit the road running again when I get back to my family in Ripon. I really do miss them already.
Sow the Seed Faithfully,
Caleb O'Hara
UPDATE: I will try and blog daily about the lectureships and tomorrow I'm going to see if I can liveblog the open forum. Stay tuned...
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