******* Most Recent Posts First *******
- Open Forum has ended.
- Sabroe asks if it's ok to be entertained by people who are offering up false worship. Ralph completely dodges the question. He says that it's not about what they intend from it, but what you do with it. He diverts by making it a question about being entertained by sinful behavior to something else, thus never answering the question. One thing is for sure, Ralph can dance, I guess that tells us his position on dancing :)
- Sabroe is making his way to the mic. I'm scared.
- Elkins is making his way to the mic.... He talks about MDR. He says that Wallace assumed that in 1 Cor 7:15 that if she departed it was for fornication. He says that sometimes there is background to situations that we don't know about. Ralph says that is true.
- More people at the mic about Christian Contemporary Music. Nothing really of note.
- First guy to the mic has questions about “Christian Music.” He has a lot of questions. Ralph basically says we used to not have a problem with it when they had it on the radio when he was a kid. Now they have a problem with it. The whole problem with Ralph's argument is that he is arguing it's validity based on our inconsistency. When did inconsistency ever prove something was right or wrong?
- Is Jesus the Angel of the Lord of the Old Testament. He says that some instances probably.
- Someone wants to know if the flood was global or local and if it is a matter of fellowship. He says that it was a global flood and he is sorta vague about the fellowship question.
- How can we help the brethren study the Bible better and not just study topically. He talks about how when he was a kid they really studied the Bible; his mom made sure. Then he talked about our current culture and wanting everything flashy. He then says we shouldn't dumb things down because our kids today are smart enough.
- The next question has to do with Textual Criticism. He gives a crash course on textual criticism. He then goes into the Textus Receptus and the KJV. He talks about the MSS available were limited when the KJV was put together. He talks about translations some more and he says that he is happy that most people today don't make translations a matter of fellowship.
- Next question has to do with the ESV: Good or Bad? Ralph says he likes it and the Holman Christian Standard. He says he lets his students use it.
- Is it wrong to listen to contemporary Christian worship. Ralph says nope.
Showing posts with label Open Forum. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Open Forum. Show all posts
Wednesday, February 4, 2009
Tuesday, February 3, 2009
FHU Lectures Day 2 Open Forum Live Blog
********* Most Recent Posts Listed First ***********
- The forum is over. Ralph did a good job for the day. Time for dinner.
- Ralph goes into a rant on how we are not relevant because we are perceived to be anti-women. He says we are not growing like we are supposed to. What does that have to do with anything? Who gets to declare what makes us relevant or not? Are we really going to use numbers to justify our faithfulness or relevance? If we are merely going to use numbers then we have never been relevant or faithful. Maybe we need to look to a new standard????
- We had the daily Elkins appearance.
- Some guy gets up and makes a statement about women take the authority behind the scenes. It was.... ummmm.... Interesting. Ralph moves on.
- Question about worshiping Jesus and the HS. Ralph says the HS and Jesus are God, therefore they are worthy of worship. I appreciate Ralph mentioning this. This is the core of the question and is often overlooked.
- Next guy gets up and gives a mini-sermon. Doesn't really contribute anything new.
- Someone comes up to the mic and asks about a woman signing to the deaf. Ralph basically says that it's OK because women are better translators. Ralph says she doesn't have a pulpit she just has a place to stand.
- There are more questions about when a woman can speak, address the congregation, etc.... One of the questions has to do with reading the Bible out loud. He mentions that it is all a matter of authority. He is very vague... which seems to be a theme.
- Now a serious of questions on womens role and prayer. Ralph mentions women praying in the home is different than any other setting. The reason being that he learns more about what his family is thinking. The problem is what biblical basis does he get this idea from? You know I feel better when I worship with an instrument, therefore it's ok??? When you get down to it Paul still says “In every place.” This common argument for women leading in the home is funny to me because where is the first place that male spiritual leadership should be upheld? Is it not the home?
- Next question has to do with disfellowshipping a congregation. Ralph says that in scripture disfellowship is done to individuals. Then he mentions that in times of change like we are in we sometimes have to withhold our fellowship from congregations and schools.
- Next question has to do with singing to Jesus etc.... And baptizing in the name of Jesus. Ralph points out that Jesus was worshipped all through his life. He mentions that Jesus was worshipped in the Revelation. Ralph points out Acts 7:59 and Stephen addressing Jesus in prayer.
- The first question has to do with answering the accusation that the Bible just copied from the Epic of Gilgamesh. Ralph gives some of the similarities and differences between the Bible and the Epic of Gilgamesh. Ralph says nobody has been able to prove they are dependent. And the Bible is true.
- Ralph opens with the old how much how long joke. When will they end?
- Lipe gives the standard intro and says no more discussion on MDR.
- E. Claude Gardner opens with a prayer.
- The forum is over. Ralph did a good job for the day. Time for dinner.
- Ralph goes into a rant on how we are not relevant because we are perceived to be anti-women. He says we are not growing like we are supposed to. What does that have to do with anything? Who gets to declare what makes us relevant or not? Are we really going to use numbers to justify our faithfulness or relevance? If we are merely going to use numbers then we have never been relevant or faithful. Maybe we need to look to a new standard????
- We had the daily Elkins appearance.
- Some guy gets up and makes a statement about women take the authority behind the scenes. It was.... ummmm.... Interesting. Ralph moves on.
- Question about worshiping Jesus and the HS. Ralph says the HS and Jesus are God, therefore they are worthy of worship. I appreciate Ralph mentioning this. This is the core of the question and is often overlooked.
- Next guy gets up and gives a mini-sermon. Doesn't really contribute anything new.
- Someone comes up to the mic and asks about a woman signing to the deaf. Ralph basically says that it's OK because women are better translators. Ralph says she doesn't have a pulpit she just has a place to stand.
- There are more questions about when a woman can speak, address the congregation, etc.... One of the questions has to do with reading the Bible out loud. He mentions that it is all a matter of authority. He is very vague... which seems to be a theme.
- Now a serious of questions on womens role and prayer. Ralph mentions women praying in the home is different than any other setting. The reason being that he learns more about what his family is thinking. The problem is what biblical basis does he get this idea from? You know I feel better when I worship with an instrument, therefore it's ok??? When you get down to it Paul still says “In every place.” This common argument for women leading in the home is funny to me because where is the first place that male spiritual leadership should be upheld? Is it not the home?
- Next question has to do with disfellowshipping a congregation. Ralph says that in scripture disfellowship is done to individuals. Then he mentions that in times of change like we are in we sometimes have to withhold our fellowship from congregations and schools.
- Next question has to do with singing to Jesus etc.... And baptizing in the name of Jesus. Ralph points out that Jesus was worshipped all through his life. He mentions that Jesus was worshipped in the Revelation. Ralph points out Acts 7:59 and Stephen addressing Jesus in prayer.
- The first question has to do with answering the accusation that the Bible just copied from the Epic of Gilgamesh. Ralph gives some of the similarities and differences between the Bible and the Epic of Gilgamesh. Ralph says nobody has been able to prove they are dependent. And the Bible is true.
- Ralph opens with the old how much how long joke. When will they end?
- Lipe gives the standard intro and says no more discussion on MDR.
- E. Claude Gardner opens with a prayer.
Monday, February 2, 2009
FHU Open Forum Live Blog
***************Most Recent Posts First******************
- Open Forum is over. A mainly uneventful event. Not too bad.
- Cliff and I are sick of all the personal stories at the mic. People are not contributing anything to the discussion. Tomorrow's open forum will be Cliff and Caleb hour. We will tell our life stories for one hour. Ralph is being too nice to people. He needs to just cut them off and say this isn't Oprah hour, this is Open Forum.
- Earl Edwards take the mic. HE mentions that some promises that are made should never have been made in the first place and should not be fulfilled. He cites Harod telling his wife's daughter that she could have whatever she wanted and she asked for John the Baptists head. This was in response to a question about divorcing someone you should not have been married to in the first place. The question was arguing that you can't tell someone to leave an adulterous relationship because they would be breaking an oath they made to the new mate.
- There he is! Elkins rides in on the white horse.
- Waiting for Elkins to make his appearance.
- Some more random comments. Nothing to blog about.
- Someone came up to the microphone to respond to Ralph's point about Acts 2. Ralph says he agrees. He is explaining that his point is how much do you have to have demonstrated before you baptize them. He says if someone says he is in sin and won't do anything about it then you don't baptize him.
- Next question is about Daniel 9:27. He is basically saying that it's a tricky passage. I'm not sure I followed him.
- The next question is on team teaching. When can a woman teach etc. The example of Priscilla and Aquila is mentioned. Ralph says Apollos was a private environment. He says that the Scriptures teach that men are spiritual leaders and are to be the teachers.
- The next question is on team teaching. When can a woman teach etc. The example of Priscilla and Aquila is mentioned. Ralph says Apollos was a private environment. He says that the Scriptures teach that men are spiritual leaders and are to be the teachers.
- The next question has to do with if the example of selling the property and giving it all to the church binding. Ralph says no. It was voluntary.
- Second question is regarding weather or not baptism washes away adultery. Ralph says adultery is continuous action. Ralph mentions Acts 2 and the 300. He then asks if the apostles asked them all specific questions about all the sins they were committing. Ralph says there wasn't time to do that in Acts 2. He said what's important is to have an attitude of repentance. He says that they need to do need to repent though.
- Ralph opens up with a question regarding what a woman should do with a husband that is verbally abusive. Basically Ralph says go see a good Christian counselor.
- And Ralph delivers as predicted.
- The Open Forum is about to begin. David Lipe is going to give the standard info about how FHU doesn't necessarily endorse what Ralph says; yadda yadda. Ralph is about to get to the mic. I'm betting he will open with a joke.
- Open Forum is over. A mainly uneventful event. Not too bad.
- Cliff and I are sick of all the personal stories at the mic. People are not contributing anything to the discussion. Tomorrow's open forum will be Cliff and Caleb hour. We will tell our life stories for one hour. Ralph is being too nice to people. He needs to just cut them off and say this isn't Oprah hour, this is Open Forum.
- Earl Edwards take the mic. HE mentions that some promises that are made should never have been made in the first place and should not be fulfilled. He cites Harod telling his wife's daughter that she could have whatever she wanted and she asked for John the Baptists head. This was in response to a question about divorcing someone you should not have been married to in the first place. The question was arguing that you can't tell someone to leave an adulterous relationship because they would be breaking an oath they made to the new mate.
- There he is! Elkins rides in on the white horse.
- Waiting for Elkins to make his appearance.
- Some more random comments. Nothing to blog about.
- Someone came up to the microphone to respond to Ralph's point about Acts 2. Ralph says he agrees. He is explaining that his point is how much do you have to have demonstrated before you baptize them. He says if someone says he is in sin and won't do anything about it then you don't baptize him.
- Next question is about Daniel 9:27. He is basically saying that it's a tricky passage. I'm not sure I followed him.
- The next question is on team teaching. When can a woman teach etc. The example of Priscilla and Aquila is mentioned. Ralph says Apollos was a private environment. He says that the Scriptures teach that men are spiritual leaders and are to be the teachers.
- The next question is on team teaching. When can a woman teach etc. The example of Priscilla and Aquila is mentioned. Ralph says Apollos was a private environment. He says that the Scriptures teach that men are spiritual leaders and are to be the teachers.
- The next question has to do with if the example of selling the property and giving it all to the church binding. Ralph says no. It was voluntary.
- Second question is regarding weather or not baptism washes away adultery. Ralph says adultery is continuous action. Ralph mentions Acts 2 and the 300. He then asks if the apostles asked them all specific questions about all the sins they were committing. Ralph says there wasn't time to do that in Acts 2. He said what's important is to have an attitude of repentance. He says that they need to do need to repent though.
- Ralph opens up with a question regarding what a woman should do with a husband that is verbally abusive. Basically Ralph says go see a good Christian counselor.
- And Ralph delivers as predicted.
- The Open Forum is about to begin. David Lipe is going to give the standard info about how FHU doesn't necessarily endorse what Ralph says; yadda yadda. Ralph is about to get to the mic. I'm betting he will open with a joke.
Thursday, February 7, 2008
FHU Thursday Lectures
I am sorry there have been no updates today. My wireless signal would not work at Freed. It would connect to their network but would not give me an outside line. There were other people there who were able to get out. I have a pretty good feeling my computer was specifically blocked on their network. Maybe someone at FHU did not like my reviews.
Today's update is going to be short and to the point. The chapel speaker created a huge stir to which Earl Edwards had to get up and mildly rebuke him. I'm listening to the lesson again as we speak so I can give greater detail. Right after lunch I caught Alex Bayes in Loyd Auditorium. I totally disagreed with the entire background of the speaker and thus his entire lesson was based on a bad foundation. His main point was that Peter, in John 21, was just making a choice between better and best when he went back to fishing. The entire context of John 21 is the wavering faith of Peter. Jesus is driving to make Peter commit to "follow me." Peter went back to his old way of life before Jesus had called him, he went back to fishing. This was not a choice between better and best this was a returning to the old way of life! The good side was that he was animated and passionate about what he spoke. The zeal was wonderful. The foundation needed some work though.
After that I listened to James Gardner on the variation of language on John 21. Again he made the same mistakes as the previous speaker. He was doing a word study on agapao and phileo and his conclusion is that the variance in the language is insignificant. He stands on ground with good language scholars like D.A. Carson who believes there is no significance. To make this short, again the context is ignored. Context always overrules words. The context of Peter's wavering faith is obvious. John's usage of the two words and the various nuances can be clearly seen when they are studied out. Can the differences in words be taken too far - absolutely! However, in this text the context seems clear. Oh yes, I almost forget, he said that Peter and Jesus had this discussion in Aramaic so therefore they didn't use any of these words. That is a big stretch. Where does he get that this conversation was in Aramaic and not Koine Greek?
The people seemed to disappear after these sessions. Open forum was sparse and uneventful today. Sorry there was no live blog, but I could not get a connection. If I get time I may blog a few comments about it. At least last year it was more exciting with the whole hand clapping debate. All in all I felt pretty down today. I've been looking for that passionate textually based thunder sermon and have been left wanting. I keep thinking, "Is this the best we can do?" Disappointed is the best word I can come up with at the moment.
Today's update is going to be short and to the point. The chapel speaker created a huge stir to which Earl Edwards had to get up and mildly rebuke him. I'm listening to the lesson again as we speak so I can give greater detail. Right after lunch I caught Alex Bayes in Loyd Auditorium. I totally disagreed with the entire background of the speaker and thus his entire lesson was based on a bad foundation. His main point was that Peter, in John 21, was just making a choice between better and best when he went back to fishing. The entire context of John 21 is the wavering faith of Peter. Jesus is driving to make Peter commit to "follow me." Peter went back to his old way of life before Jesus had called him, he went back to fishing. This was not a choice between better and best this was a returning to the old way of life! The good side was that he was animated and passionate about what he spoke. The zeal was wonderful. The foundation needed some work though.
After that I listened to James Gardner on the variation of language on John 21. Again he made the same mistakes as the previous speaker. He was doing a word study on agapao and phileo and his conclusion is that the variance in the language is insignificant. He stands on ground with good language scholars like D.A. Carson who believes there is no significance. To make this short, again the context is ignored. Context always overrules words. The context of Peter's wavering faith is obvious. John's usage of the two words and the various nuances can be clearly seen when they are studied out. Can the differences in words be taken too far - absolutely! However, in this text the context seems clear. Oh yes, I almost forget, he said that Peter and Jesus had this discussion in Aramaic so therefore they didn't use any of these words. That is a big stretch. Where does he get that this conversation was in Aramaic and not Koine Greek?
The people seemed to disappear after these sessions. Open forum was sparse and uneventful today. Sorry there was no live blog, but I could not get a connection. If I get time I may blog a few comments about it. At least last year it was more exciting with the whole hand clapping debate. All in all I felt pretty down today. I've been looking for that passionate textually based thunder sermon and have been left wanting. I keep thinking, "Is this the best we can do?" Disappointed is the best word I can come up with at the moment.
Wednesday, February 6, 2008
Wednesday Open Forum Live Blog
*More Recent Comments Appear First*
- Forum is over for the day. It's amazing to me the amount of questions about the LS on Sunday nights and our brotherhoods constant attempts to not address the subject. I will blog about the LS on Sunday nights when I get back to Ripon. I would give today a 5 out of 10.
- Mac Lyon makes a showing at the MIC. He tells a story about when he was preaching and he and the elders wanted to address the low attendance. So they elders told Mac they would take out a full page article in the newspaper to advertise a series of lessons on Sunday nights by him. Mac asked what they wanted him to speak on. They said they wanted him to speak on what the Bible says about the death penalty. Long story short Sunday night the audience was packed with lawyers from all around. He said they knew more about the law than he did. What they wanted to know is what the Bible says. He said millions of people in this world want to hear what the Bible says and they are going to Sunday evening services and leaving with their buckets empty. Go Mac Go!
-Had to make an unexpected bathroom run for Caleb Jr. Alex filled in for me while I was gone.
-Question/statement about giving unexpected tax returns to the Lord. Ralph says it's a wonderful point.
- Question then goes to the LS on Sunday evening. Ralph says we need to be careful not to make an expedience into a command. What if a guy can’t make it for both because of shift work? Another asks is it necessary to offer the LS (Lord’s Supper) on Sunday nights. Ralph says some do it all together. He says it’s a matter of expediency. Ralph has completely dodge the question.
- A guy gets to the mic and says some of the reasons their members give is they don’t want to “rassel” (that’s wrestling to those of us in the West) with their kids again. He then asks if on Sunday evenings we can do something different and Ralph quickly says NO.
I think Ralph’s response was too quick. I don’t believe the brother was saying we need to change worship. Why can’t be have Bible class? Why can’t we do a Bible chart together? We have already met for the assembly on the first day of the week question. I will try to add more thoughts on this later
- One MIC comment is that we need to give them something worth coming back for. Not treat it like it’s a not that important.
- BTW… Alex Aguirre is wearing a black T-Shirt, Hurley pants and black Pumas. I think he is going to audition for the next spot as Johnny Cash.
- How can we get people back on Sunday night? Ralph calls it the “half-back” position; you get half the members back. He asks for help from the mics. Not really getting any apropos feedback.
- Ralph is wearing a shiny jacket. I think it’s a leather jacket or one of those flashy suits. I’m hoping it’s one of those out of date flashy suits. If so he is a courageous dude.
- Why do good things happen to bad people? Ralph is talking fast going through Scriptures. He mentions the usual providence stuff etc…. He says that we don’t know why things happen today because we don’t have the reason revealed to us. We don’t know why things happen. It could be the hand of God or it could just be the natural result of a fallen world.
My comments - Where people get into trouble is when they try to attribute something to God when they don’t know. We are in trouble when we say God doesn’t work – He does! We get in trouble when we try to label what is and what is not a work of God – We don’t know. He works, He is alive, but we don’t know exactly what He is doing and what are the natural consequences of a fallen world. God taught this to Job. When Job wanted to know God told Job that as soon as he can explain how nature works in detail then I will tell you. He shut the mouth of job and that’s where our mouths should be on these matters.
- Question is about how much we can help the Baptist at Union (the place hit by the tornado yesterday). Ralph says the school has already offered housing assistance to Union. He says we need to show the love of Christ to them. I don’t think he really answered the question. I told my brother-in-law Joe Wells last night that it was the wrath of God on the Baptists (it's a joke people).
- Ralph delivers on the cheesy joke
- Listening to Lipe’s canned introduction of “Ralph”
- Opening announcements. My prediction is a cheesy Gilmore joke to start it off.
- Now they are passing the baskets. They want $$$$$. Audience seems more sparse today than previous days. They must have got a memo that there was going to be a call for money that I missed.
- Forum is over for the day. It's amazing to me the amount of questions about the LS on Sunday nights and our brotherhoods constant attempts to not address the subject. I will blog about the LS on Sunday nights when I get back to Ripon. I would give today a 5 out of 10.
- Mac Lyon makes a showing at the MIC. He tells a story about when he was preaching and he and the elders wanted to address the low attendance. So they elders told Mac they would take out a full page article in the newspaper to advertise a series of lessons on Sunday nights by him. Mac asked what they wanted him to speak on. They said they wanted him to speak on what the Bible says about the death penalty. Long story short Sunday night the audience was packed with lawyers from all around. He said they knew more about the law than he did. What they wanted to know is what the Bible says. He said millions of people in this world want to hear what the Bible says and they are going to Sunday evening services and leaving with their buckets empty. Go Mac Go!
-Had to make an unexpected bathroom run for Caleb Jr. Alex filled in for me while I was gone.
-Question/statement about giving unexpected tax returns to the Lord. Ralph says it's a wonderful point.
- Question then goes to the LS on Sunday evening. Ralph says we need to be careful not to make an expedience into a command. What if a guy can’t make it for both because of shift work? Another asks is it necessary to offer the LS (Lord’s Supper) on Sunday nights. Ralph says some do it all together. He says it’s a matter of expediency. Ralph has completely dodge the question.
- A guy gets to the mic and says some of the reasons their members give is they don’t want to “rassel” (that’s wrestling to those of us in the West) with their kids again. He then asks if on Sunday evenings we can do something different and Ralph quickly says NO.
I think Ralph’s response was too quick. I don’t believe the brother was saying we need to change worship. Why can’t be have Bible class? Why can’t we do a Bible chart together? We have already met for the assembly on the first day of the week question. I will try to add more thoughts on this later
- One MIC comment is that we need to give them something worth coming back for. Not treat it like it’s a not that important.
- BTW… Alex Aguirre is wearing a black T-Shirt, Hurley pants and black Pumas. I think he is going to audition for the next spot as Johnny Cash.
- How can we get people back on Sunday night? Ralph calls it the “half-back” position; you get half the members back. He asks for help from the mics. Not really getting any apropos feedback.
- Ralph is wearing a shiny jacket. I think it’s a leather jacket or one of those flashy suits. I’m hoping it’s one of those out of date flashy suits. If so he is a courageous dude.
- Why do good things happen to bad people? Ralph is talking fast going through Scriptures. He mentions the usual providence stuff etc…. He says that we don’t know why things happen today because we don’t have the reason revealed to us. We don’t know why things happen. It could be the hand of God or it could just be the natural result of a fallen world.
My comments - Where people get into trouble is when they try to attribute something to God when they don’t know. We are in trouble when we say God doesn’t work – He does! We get in trouble when we try to label what is and what is not a work of God – We don’t know. He works, He is alive, but we don’t know exactly what He is doing and what are the natural consequences of a fallen world. God taught this to Job. When Job wanted to know God told Job that as soon as he can explain how nature works in detail then I will tell you. He shut the mouth of job and that’s where our mouths should be on these matters.
- Question is about how much we can help the Baptist at Union (the place hit by the tornado yesterday). Ralph says the school has already offered housing assistance to Union. He says we need to show the love of Christ to them. I don’t think he really answered the question. I told my brother-in-law Joe Wells last night that it was the wrath of God on the Baptists (it's a joke people).
- Ralph delivers on the cheesy joke
- Listening to Lipe’s canned introduction of “Ralph”
- Opening announcements. My prediction is a cheesy Gilmore joke to start it off.
- Now they are passing the baskets. They want $$$$$. Audience seems more sparse today than previous days. They must have got a memo that there was going to be a call for money that I missed.
Tuesday, February 5, 2008
Open Forum Live Blog
*More Recent Comments Appear First*
- Updates will be coming but I'm stuck in a basement. More to come as soon as I can.
- I have tos top live blogging. Battery is dying! Sorry. I was waiting for Elkins and he is not about to dissapoint. He is making his way there now!
- Another guy gets up and appears to be reading from a card… maybe? And talks about working in jails. He then talks about stuff from discussions yesterday. He then rambles on for a while. He says let’s live within the boundaries and do the things that are lawful. He is talking about clapping.
- Earl speaks about the veils from the perspective of working in foreign countries. Nothing too important here just talks about cultural differences
- Another guy gets up… speaks of educated missionaries. Same stuff.
- A bunch of questions about Veils. He says it’s a matter of culture. If you live in a culture where there is a sign of authority you need to do it otherwise it is violating the meaning of the passage. He says people have a right to do it if they want but it’s a matter of choice like Romans 14. He also says that you cannot practice this passage in 1 Corinthians unless it wraps around and hangs down. The things you see on most heads of people in “covering churches” do not meet the definition of these words. I would tend to agree. I will also say we blow this discussion off way to easy instead of discussing it in more detail.
- Question is about questioning Christ’s doctrine. Ralph defines doctrine as teaching and says some think the word is a bad thing.
- Question about the necessity of needing a Bible degree to be a missionary. He says of course not. But you need to think about the world we live in and being professionally trained and you need to put yourself in a situation where you can minister to your fullest. It’s an expediency (matter of opinion) matter though. Sounds good. It’s still interesting to me that all of the great missionaries I can think of off the top of my head were not known as the most educated. Not to downplay education as I am someone who is continuing to pursue it. In my opinion I think we need to rethink how we educate not if we need to do it. The new covenant is an education one (Jer 31:31ff).
- The standard yadda yadda before the forum begins
- Waiting for the Ralph joke
- And he delivered
- How can so many people see the Bible differently? Ralph answers that some want to twist the Scriptures. He also notes that some is ignorance; some is willful, etc…. He then states that anytime the body of Christ is fragmented Christ is not happy. I don’t agree with this at all. It seems to me he is trying to play for pity on his hand clapping deal. Was Christ not happy when they had to fragment away the man from the church in Corinth in 1 Cor 5? Sometimes removing and division is good. Christ makes the division between good and evil.
- Updates will be coming but I'm stuck in a basement. More to come as soon as I can.
- I have tos top live blogging. Battery is dying! Sorry. I was waiting for Elkins and he is not about to dissapoint. He is making his way there now!
- Another guy gets up and appears to be reading from a card… maybe? And talks about working in jails. He then talks about stuff from discussions yesterday. He then rambles on for a while. He says let’s live within the boundaries and do the things that are lawful. He is talking about clapping.
- Earl speaks about the veils from the perspective of working in foreign countries. Nothing too important here just talks about cultural differences
- Another guy gets up… speaks of educated missionaries. Same stuff.
- A bunch of questions about Veils. He says it’s a matter of culture. If you live in a culture where there is a sign of authority you need to do it otherwise it is violating the meaning of the passage. He says people have a right to do it if they want but it’s a matter of choice like Romans 14. He also says that you cannot practice this passage in 1 Corinthians unless it wraps around and hangs down. The things you see on most heads of people in “covering churches” do not meet the definition of these words. I would tend to agree. I will also say we blow this discussion off way to easy instead of discussing it in more detail.
- Question is about questioning Christ’s doctrine. Ralph defines doctrine as teaching and says some think the word is a bad thing.
- Question about the necessity of needing a Bible degree to be a missionary. He says of course not. But you need to think about the world we live in and being professionally trained and you need to put yourself in a situation where you can minister to your fullest. It’s an expediency (matter of opinion) matter though. Sounds good. It’s still interesting to me that all of the great missionaries I can think of off the top of my head were not known as the most educated. Not to downplay education as I am someone who is continuing to pursue it. In my opinion I think we need to rethink how we educate not if we need to do it. The new covenant is an education one (Jer 31:31ff).
- The standard yadda yadda before the forum begins
- Waiting for the Ralph joke
- And he delivered
- How can so many people see the Bible differently? Ralph answers that some want to twist the Scriptures. He also notes that some is ignorance; some is willful, etc…. He then states that anytime the body of Christ is fragmented Christ is not happy. I don’t agree with this at all. It seems to me he is trying to play for pity on his hand clapping deal. Was Christ not happy when they had to fragment away the man from the church in Corinth in 1 Cor 5? Sometimes removing and division is good. Christ makes the division between good and evil.
Monday, February 4, 2008
Open Forum Live Blog
*More Recent Comments Appear First*
- That was pretty much the end of the open forum. I give it a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10. Ralph needs to slow do and articulare better. And I'm longing for good comments from the mics. Maybe tomorrow eh?
- A fellow who was a missionary in I believe it was India, got up and talked for a long time. Not really sure what his point was. He then moved on to talk about how people had come in to try and destroy their work by teaching anti-cooperation doctrine and then he moved to the liberals who came in teaching that false doctrine of the instrument of hand clapping. He then said the brethren there rejected that unbiblical practice.
Ralph mentions he addressed this all last year and you can get it on CD along with everyone else’s comments on it. He says that he did hear it on CD and couldn’t be here last year because he was doing mission work overseas. He then says he just wants to know of Ralph has repented yet. You can then hear a pin drop for a couple seconds and this is then followed by a few scattered hand claps.
Lipe makes his move to the microphone to do his usual squash of the discussion. This is followed by… you guessed it, Elkins! I knew he was coming and here he is. He says that he won’t talk about the clapping thing since they don’t want to, just listen to the CD and hear his comments from last year. He then just backs up what Ralph said about how not revealing all information is not lying.
My thoughts…. It was funny to see this guy bring it up like this. Before the open forum I said, “I wonder how long it will take for someone to bring up hand clapping.” Not long apparently! I still think there is confusion on the issue and Freed just wants to not address it. Can you imagine if Ralph said that you can use a trumpet in singing? They would not tolerate it. Yet there are those who believe that clapping IS always an instrument and is therefore sinful to use in singing. That really is where the debate should be, however, it seems to be that this has been forgotten in the whole heat of the discussion. I think it’s a bit disingenuous for them to not talk about this when they would readily pick up a discussion on instrumental music. My final thought is that most comments made on this subject are opinions. Very few are digging into the text. It’s an epidemic.
- OK... live blogging is going to stop for now. I will sumarize at the end. Caleb Junior needs the computer to distract him so he sits still for the rest. Check back!
- I'm waiting for Garland Elkins to make his appearence. I know it's coming... waiting....
- Question: Is it ok for a Christian to lie if it’s a matter of life and death?
Ralph talks about Abram’s lies about his wife. He also mentions Isaac’s similar lie. He then mentions Rahab the harlot. He says 1 Sam 16:1-3 is one of the stickiest passages. It appears that God is telling him to deceive the people. Ralph says that this leads him to believe that you don’t have to tell every thought you know in order to be truthful.
God is a God of truth and doesn’t lie. We are to be people like God. Our Yes be yes and no be no. We are honest.
Conclusion is that it’s not wrong to not reveal all information but if asked you can’t lie. Ralph points out that some benefited form lying (in this life). He said that’s not the question.
Good point. People prosper in the world all the time even though they are evil. We don’t base good and evil, right and wrong, and integrity upon worldly standards of results. We look to the end. Job teaches a great lesson on this.
- Question about giving. I really didn’t follow. Gilmore talks too fast. I think the conclusion was giving on the first day of the week is the Apostolic pattern to be followed.
- Question: In general the question is about what happened to the gentiles in the OT. They weren’t under the old law so how did they receive forgiveness.
Ralph’s general response was that the gentiles where not under law and Paul says (somewhere in Romans) that without law there can be no sin. His conclusion is that God had a way that he dealt with them and it’s fuzzy.
This is true. It’s obvious God extended grace to gentiles as the entire book of Jonah shows, as well as other passages. Exactly how he did it is not always made clear, nor does it need to be. God’s seed promise was through Israel and Israel is the line through which Christ came. God’s dealings with Israel teach us enough to learn how God sees people. I think the key is to understand that Romans 1:16-17 shows that God has justified by those who come to Him through faith – believing He can do something for them that they cannot do for themselves.
- First Question: Is it meaningful to have the open forum because it seems like this generation doesn’t like to deal with controversial things.
Ralph believes the time is coming when discussion about biblical subjects is going to happen more. We are in a swing and right now people don’t want to talk about these matters but they will want to more in the future. Maybe he is right.
I think he blew a chance to examine the mindset of people in this generation and why they would think the way they do.
- Guess what, the cheesy joke is now coming. Everyone pay up!
- Ralph Gilmore is being introduced. My prediction he will start out with some cheesy joke. I'm taking bets.
- David Lipe is giving the standard spill he gives every year. What is open forum. Disagree but don’t be disagreeable. Oh yes, and FHU and the answers are not official answers from God. Good to know!
- That was pretty much the end of the open forum. I give it a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10. Ralph needs to slow do and articulare better. And I'm longing for good comments from the mics. Maybe tomorrow eh?
- A fellow who was a missionary in I believe it was India, got up and talked for a long time. Not really sure what his point was. He then moved on to talk about how people had come in to try and destroy their work by teaching anti-cooperation doctrine and then he moved to the liberals who came in teaching that false doctrine of the instrument of hand clapping. He then said the brethren there rejected that unbiblical practice.
Ralph mentions he addressed this all last year and you can get it on CD along with everyone else’s comments on it. He says that he did hear it on CD and couldn’t be here last year because he was doing mission work overseas. He then says he just wants to know of Ralph has repented yet. You can then hear a pin drop for a couple seconds and this is then followed by a few scattered hand claps.
Lipe makes his move to the microphone to do his usual squash of the discussion. This is followed by… you guessed it, Elkins! I knew he was coming and here he is. He says that he won’t talk about the clapping thing since they don’t want to, just listen to the CD and hear his comments from last year. He then just backs up what Ralph said about how not revealing all information is not lying.
My thoughts…. It was funny to see this guy bring it up like this. Before the open forum I said, “I wonder how long it will take for someone to bring up hand clapping.” Not long apparently! I still think there is confusion on the issue and Freed just wants to not address it. Can you imagine if Ralph said that you can use a trumpet in singing? They would not tolerate it. Yet there are those who believe that clapping IS always an instrument and is therefore sinful to use in singing. That really is where the debate should be, however, it seems to be that this has been forgotten in the whole heat of the discussion. I think it’s a bit disingenuous for them to not talk about this when they would readily pick up a discussion on instrumental music. My final thought is that most comments made on this subject are opinions. Very few are digging into the text. It’s an epidemic.
- OK... live blogging is going to stop for now. I will sumarize at the end. Caleb Junior needs the computer to distract him so he sits still for the rest. Check back!
- I'm waiting for Garland Elkins to make his appearence. I know it's coming... waiting....
- Question: Is it ok for a Christian to lie if it’s a matter of life and death?
Ralph talks about Abram’s lies about his wife. He also mentions Isaac’s similar lie. He then mentions Rahab the harlot. He says 1 Sam 16:1-3 is one of the stickiest passages. It appears that God is telling him to deceive the people. Ralph says that this leads him to believe that you don’t have to tell every thought you know in order to be truthful.
God is a God of truth and doesn’t lie. We are to be people like God. Our Yes be yes and no be no. We are honest.
Conclusion is that it’s not wrong to not reveal all information but if asked you can’t lie. Ralph points out that some benefited form lying (in this life). He said that’s not the question.
Good point. People prosper in the world all the time even though they are evil. We don’t base good and evil, right and wrong, and integrity upon worldly standards of results. We look to the end. Job teaches a great lesson on this.
- Question about giving. I really didn’t follow. Gilmore talks too fast. I think the conclusion was giving on the first day of the week is the Apostolic pattern to be followed.
- Question: In general the question is about what happened to the gentiles in the OT. They weren’t under the old law so how did they receive forgiveness.
Ralph’s general response was that the gentiles where not under law and Paul says (somewhere in Romans) that without law there can be no sin. His conclusion is that God had a way that he dealt with them and it’s fuzzy.
This is true. It’s obvious God extended grace to gentiles as the entire book of Jonah shows, as well as other passages. Exactly how he did it is not always made clear, nor does it need to be. God’s seed promise was through Israel and Israel is the line through which Christ came. God’s dealings with Israel teach us enough to learn how God sees people. I think the key is to understand that Romans 1:16-17 shows that God has justified by those who come to Him through faith – believing He can do something for them that they cannot do for themselves.
- First Question: Is it meaningful to have the open forum because it seems like this generation doesn’t like to deal with controversial things.
Ralph believes the time is coming when discussion about biblical subjects is going to happen more. We are in a swing and right now people don’t want to talk about these matters but they will want to more in the future. Maybe he is right.
I think he blew a chance to examine the mindset of people in this generation and why they would think the way they do.
- Guess what, the cheesy joke is now coming. Everyone pay up!
- Ralph Gilmore is being introduced. My prediction he will start out with some cheesy joke. I'm taking bets.
- David Lipe is giving the standard spill he gives every year. What is open forum. Disagree but don’t be disagreeable. Oh yes, and FHU and the answers are not official answers from God. Good to know!
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